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Ibti's avatar

For a long time, European trade was based on commenda contracts, copied from the Muslims' muḍaraba. However, in order to get their hands on the exotic spices, sumptuous fabrics and other luxurious consumer goods Muslims were trading in via the silk route, they innovated the "limited liability" corporation to fund the risky sea journeys around Africa. The notion of the company as its own juristic person to shield its shareholders in their personal capacity from the debt and harm incurred by the enterprise in which they invested, was considered sinful and caused a moral outrage in the church upon inception 400 years ago. Limited liability enabled the west to "pull ahead" of Muslims, enabling colonialism, the trans Atlantic slave trade, the emiserating industrial revolution, globalization, climate change and tech feudalism. The west is in its Dark Ages, again. Governments are oppressing their people, crusaders are sending forth bodies and armaments to mass murder Muslims and the populace is in the grips of AI superstition.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

An excellent comment. Also emphasises the importance of the trade routes, which many people still underestimate. Yet another example of why the Houthi's have been so smart, undefeatable and hated by those same Westerners, using their centuries old maritime knowledge and smarts to sabotage Red Sea shipping lanes - with devastating impacts for Western economies. No killing of children needed, just intelligence and strategy. Yes the West is in its dark ages once again - hopefully this time it can't attain its glory off the backs of the subjugated.

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Ibti's avatar

The Muslims of Andalusia, ushered in the Renaissance by fostering the intellectual collaboration with Jews (Maimonedes, famously) and Christians. Regrettably both Jews and Muslims were expelled, killed or forced to convert to Catholicism during the Reconquista. Unlike Muslims, among whom Christian communities continue for millennia, Christians are absolutely incapable of pluralism.

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Aamir Razak's avatar

Thank you for this important context, Ibti. I never knew of the origins of the limited liability company, but it seems it had an insidious origin. And from it were born the monstrous and bloodstained effects of colonization, slavery and globalization (Which has not, in fact, brought global prosperity and equality, but rather further exacerbating existing disparities in wealth, education and living standard, and has propagated colonization by alternative means).

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

You're very right. And yes, that was interesting to learn.

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Finn Andreen's avatar

Great writing, wow you manage the word with such skill. Comments:

Europe's dark middle ages? Actually, they weren't at all as "dark" as that. That is a misconception, often linked to the fact that having no central state is in our world seen as somehow bad.

I don't see an issue with saying "Middle East" ; all cultures place themselves in the center, that's natural, no? Just look at the "Middle Kingdom"...

There is no denying any longer the link with the East and the information received, but the West was able to develop unique and very powerful goods: capitalism and liberalism. Let's nevee forget that.

Secondly, I would not finish by recommending or hoping that Jews leave back to Europe from Palestine. Why not imagine the political breakdown of the ethnocentered zionist state into one multiconfessional Palestine. Also hard, though, to imagine considering how far gone the Zionists are.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Thank you. I don't think the assessment of the dark ages as such, was linked in a major way with not having a central state, but more because of the decline or regression in knowledge and intellectual or civilisational advancement. Although I can understand why some European people may dislike this term.

However your comment that all cultures place themselves at the centre - no, my essay is precisely about how the world has been very Eurocentric and furthermore Western and Eurocentric definitions have been imposed globally, hence why "Middle East" is so contested a term.

When you say: "theres no denying the link with the East and the information received" this sounds incredibly dismissive in just that superior way that I outline in my essay. Liberalism's emphasis on the individual can be critiqued and placed in opposition to the collectivism of many non-Western cultures - "Lets never forget that" - sounds again, very prescriptive. I am not here to remind people of the positives of Liberalism and Capitalism, my essay is about the lack of acknowledgement of the contribution of other cultures to our collective knowledge.

It sounds as if you need to educate yourself more on these contributions, and once you have, ensure that you never forget those either.

During my education in the West I have heard more than enough about the contributions of the West to civilisation as we know it - and it os precisely these attitudes I have an issue with and attempt to counter through my writing. By coming on here and "reminding" me of the importance of the Wests developments, and in passing, acknowledging "links" with the East as a side issue, you basically reinforce the Eurocentrism that I describe here. I can mention many elements of value originating in the cradles of civilisation that have been infinitely valuable to culture and civilisation - the ongoing devaluation of these within Western culture and within the education that I have received means that I want to foreground and remind people of this - not even remind them, but actually point them out. And here are you, popping on here to "remind" me - of the Western achievements, once again. irony indeed. You really don't get it - or perhaps you do.

The way I end - by suggesting that Europe, that has foisted the European Jews onto Palestine and the Middle East, perhaps demonstrate real holocaust guilt and reparation by welcoming them into its bosom and a white European homeland where they don't have to live in such paranoia strikes me as a logical solution; just think, if every Palestinian that has been kicked out of their home ever since the Europeans arrived, was allowed back again, there maybe wouldn't be room for the Europeans.

Bu I couldn't care less if thats not how you would end - it's not your essay.

That aside - I am afraid your whole comment seems to me incredibly arrogant and illustrative of the kinds of attitudes I describe in my essay.

Although I don't talk about individuals but about systems, the individuals I do refer to, are those who align happily with the systems that elevate the white, Western, Eurocentric worldview above all others - those individuals often take inordinate offence to any attempt at rebalancing the scales.

I welcome your comments though, they provide an illustration of such attitudes in action. Thank you.

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Finn Andreen's avatar

An advice: avoid cheap insult and ad hominem attacks, it makes you look small. This is basic savoir-vivre from both East and West...

I see I touched a nerve. So much emotion... Advice : keep it for the real perpetrators, not for someone who engages in an exchange in your post (!).

I am certainly not justifying any Western position at all; reread my comment. And why should I disregard the huge influences from the East that Europe benefitted from? I simply will not accept the term "dark ages" for the obvious reasons I have explained.

Finally, the best critics of the West are in the end... from the West. My articles exposing and criticizing Europe deeply could hardly have been written by someone from the Middle-East.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

A word of advice - I don't need your fucking advice, and I couldn't care less how you perceive me.

Yes of course there is emotion; in an essay where I am commenting on the problems of colonial attitudes and European superiority, as well as being subjected to history teaching that elevates the Eurocentric world view, here you are parading your superior attitudes.

More advice? Really - I do not need any advice from you. Who are the "real perpetrators"? You get to define that, do you? My emotion will come out when I feel an attitude that warrants it, this isn't something you are positioned to advise on.

Frankly, the way that you express yourself - "lets not forget that", "an advice" and so on - is very condescending and prescriptive - if you don;t think you get peoples backs up just by the way that you conduct yourself, you need to self-examine - although I expect you don't care, this is apparent as well.

Whether you accept the term dark ages or not, there is a weight of historical commentary that supports it being a justified term - and relative to other cultures such as Arab and Islamic cultures that were indeed flourishing artistically, scientifically and culturally - it was indeed a dark period of relative ignorance. Whether you accept this is immaterial.

you don't think you are justifying a Western position, and yet in your conduct its apparent; and also in the fact that in an essay where I discuss problematic Western and European attitudes, your main gripe relates to describing a historical period as the "Dark ages" - and yes, the advice on how you would have finished your essay, lets not forget that.

Finn - I am perfectly happy with expressing my emotions; people like you do touch a nerve, of course - I have no problem admitting that. I have experienced enough similar attitudes from Westerners towards people who criticise their cultures or make an observation that doesnt sit well with their assumptions of superiority.

I am not from the Middle East - but I may also say the same about you, that you being a Westerner aren't in a position to meaningfully critique Islamic or Arab cultures. In this particular case, even less so, beause where I have received a Western education in Europe, you most probably haven't received an education that sufficiently focuses on the Middle East. I know more about European culture than you do about Islamic and Arabic culture, or West Asian culture.

Your ending your commentary by using the term "Middle East" just emphasises your snide attitude of provocation - that is very much, something I experience culturally from Europeans over people from other cultures.

I belive in being direct so instead of being passive aggressive and snide, and denying what I was saying, I prefer to tell you in no uncertain terms. If you have a problem with that I simply don't give a fuck.

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Ibti's avatar

They were dark because Europe was a brutal, immiserated, disease ridden, superstitious swamp where people were to afraid to leave their feudal enclaves. In contrast, the Islamic greeting, "Assalaamu alaykum" conferred safety of one's body, one's wealth and one's reputation, high standards of technological advancement (Al Andalus has street lighting 1000 years before London, heck, even South Africa had street lights in Kimberley before them), public health (Crusaders returned with wondrous tales of the superb medical treatment THEY received in Muslim lands) and as for hygiene, well, Westerners only learnt from COVID to wash their hands and still generally don't perform post-toilet ablutions. The lack of central government is not at all what comes to mind when referring to the Dark Ages.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

I agree- the comment about a central government seems to ignore most of what made people refer to the dark ages as such. Amusing really.

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Finn Andreen's avatar

What you are writing is not exactly wrong, but a caricatural description in one direction only, in order, I guess, to boost your argument and to try to prove what your bias already tells you is true.

Actually, the stereotype of the Middle Ages as “the Dark Ages” was fostered by European Renaissance humanists and Enlightenment "philosophes" and has been abandoned by scholars long ago. So by calling them "dark" you guys are actually just repeating European tropes from centuries ago. Pretty ironic...

Here some quotes from key scholars of this period:

The Middle Ages were so important in Europe because "the first condition for the maximization of economic efficiency is the liberation of civil society with respect to the state…The expansion of capitalism owes its origins and raison d’être to political anarchy." (historian Jean Baechler, 1975)

“The origins of the Industrial Revolution go back to that profound change in ideas, social structures, and value systems that accompanied the rise of the urban communes in the eleventh and thirteenth centuries” (Cipolla, 1981).

From late tenth to the fourteenth centuries, "here, for the first time in history, an underdeveloped society succeeded in developing itself, mostly by its own efforts … it created the indispensable material and moral conditions for a thousand years of virtually uninterrupted growth; and, in more than one way, it is still with us." (Lopez, 1971)

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

"So by calling them "dark" you guys are actually just repeating European tropes from centuries ago. Pretty ironic..."

What is your agenda here? By selectively quoting historians this also doesn't prove anything. The term dark ages that you have taken such exception to, was fostered by Renaissance thinkers because in relative terms the dark ages were indeed culturally backward.

I can certainly believe that subsequently some historians would have taken exception to this term as suggesting a negative period of ignorance and superstition, lack of knowledge and discovery or artistic advancement - and decided to debunk this. that doesn't surprise me.

What I would be refreshing would be for you to come on here and acknowledge some of the advancements and civilisational key contributions by other cultures including Islamic - not in some passing condescending way on your route to reminding us why we should actually appreciate Western cultures, but actually, meaningfully show your appreciation or understanding.

I can come back at you with dozens of quotes that affirm the view of the dark ages that gave rise to this term.

By stating Ibti's comment is "not exactly wrong" but "caricatural" you again show the same dismissiveness about Islamic cultures and civilisation.

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Finn Andreen's avatar

Contrast this with the path taken by Islamic societies at the same time :"The early centuries of Islamic expansion opened large vistas to merchants and tradesmen. But they failed to bring to towns the freedom and power that was indispensable for their progress. Under the tightening grip of military and landed aristocracies the revolution that in the tenth century had been just around the corner lost momentum and failed" (Lopez, 1971)

Europe of the Middle Ages was unique in that it was a policentric judicial system; a decentralized system of competing jurisdictions, this helped spread the liberal policies that brought prosperity to the towns that first ventured to experiment with them.

And now I haven't even started on Christianity which was fundamental in this development, and which was lacking, by definition, in Islamic societies.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Islamic societies during the European Middle Ages were relatively much more successful for reasons that are not just economic as you have painted here; the Islamic Golden Age built on key knowledge and wisdom that had been accumulated over centuries, while Europe was in relative stagnation.

There was major emphasis on knowledge and wisdom, books and learning - this was a very distinct feature of the Islamic world, its building upon Classical knowledge.

You're here trying to foreground European advancement and taking issue with the "dark ages" as a descriptive term, and fundamentally, to provide arguments as to why they weren't so dark, and why Islamic civilisation had regressive aspects. that is what is ironic here.

What I allude to in my essay is how many Western developments built on this knowledge from the East and from Islamic culture s- and then patently refuse to fully acknowledge this or to provide us with a balanced picture regarding this.

There was so much that was and is lacking in Christian societies, and there was so much richness in the Islamic world.

It is really important that this is acknowledged, and in my view, an important step in the right direction.

My essay is ultimately about the damaging effects of adopting Eurocentric Western privileging explanations and worldviews - that kind of superiority is what results in the Western colonialism that shields states like "Israel".

Your efforts to counter this and your taking issue with my points about the contributions of other cultures, is precisely the kind of European and Western arrogance I often allude to, that can brook no criticism and whose immediate response is to accuse - Islamic culture of being regressive and Western culture of having no real flaws, even those flaws are recast as superior points.

And then theres the tone: "let's not forget this". Exactly the kind of condescending tone that professes to teach others and dictate to them - yes, let's not forget how great the West is. You really can fuck off with that attitude.

If you want to write an essay on this, on how we must never forget the contributions of Western civilisation, go write one.

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Ibti's avatar

If white South Africans did to black South Africans a fraction of what Pigraelis do to Palestinians there wouldn't be a single white person left in South Africa.

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AB Doc's avatar

The hegemony of Human conquest. That's how we roll as a species, at least for the last 5,000 years. Shall we try a new paradigm ?

Just sayin' . . .

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

A new paradigm would be good. But also, there is a larger system here of the West exploiting all others and disseminating its lies, mired in its own hypocrisy.

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AB Doc's avatar

First things first, let's liberate East Wales. The dominoes will fall from there.

From the River to the Sea - Cymru shall be free ✊🏼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿✊🏼

Then The 6 Counties . . . ✊🏼🇮🇪✊🏼

Alba . . .

You get the idea

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Musings off a Muddled Mind's avatar

We scouse not english will move in from the north, pincer movement?

If its not nailed down tho, we get to keep it? Seems fair - thats how empire works innit

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Musings off a Muddled Mind's avatar

I would said just scouse.. but ashamed to say a few who should know better have got carried away with waving of the flags lately...

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Lol! Sounds like Game of Thrones...

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Musings off a Muddled Mind's avatar

Less violent, more bitchy but still got all the drama!!

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

😂😂😂

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

No, I don't know what you're talking about...

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AB Doc's avatar

The first nation to be Colonised and ethnically cleansed by 'The West' were infact The Welsh - exactly the same blueprint then rolled out, literally across the World

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Ah yes- someone did actually mention to me that the Welsh have the most reason to dislike the English - even though the Irish and Scottish do more lol!

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Musings off a Muddled Mind's avatar

Depends what part of scotland, theres plenty that bow to the crown still.

And we have a saying that the welsh are more english than the english..

Dont even go near the north of ireland - there barnpots on either side !!

Those who disagree from liverpool like to say scouse not english.

And the rest wave the flags and sing god save our king - the sick bastards!!

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

Humans are stupid, stupid monkies. I apologize to our simian cousins who are far more intelligent 🐵🦍🦧

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

One thing I will say - I always get the most colourful comments section for soem strange reason 😂

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

🤣

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

I am not a fan of humans.

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Realist's avatar

"I am not a fan of humans."

I sometimes feel that way, but I hold out hope that humans will evolve past their negatives.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

I think we have reached the pinnacle of evolution, it's how we use it. Problem is, even the spiritual space is frequently inhabited by those who just want to claim superior evolution. I've given up hope in humans...

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Realist's avatar

"I think we have reached the pinnacle of evolution, it's how we use it."

I disagree. Humans have a long way to go in evolution. Here is one list of positive human traits that are evolving.

Integrity, intelligence, inquisitiveness, intuitiveness, industriousness, insight, inspiration, imagination, inventiveness, and intentness.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Maybe there will be a mass consciousness shift - or I don't see how else this could happen? Things seem to be going the other way. I used to share your optimism but the last 2 years in particular have illustrated to me that we have learned very little...

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

Me neither. 🤷‍♀️

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Hassan's avatar

I’m a bona fide misanthrope

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Don't blame you in the least.

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John Horne's avatar

I now despise humanity.

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Hassan's avatar

We’re barely evolved Apes.

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

Actually I think humans are devolved Apes.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

The frontal lobe hemispheres have given us the capacity for advanced problem solving but also interpersonal manipulation and deceit, calculation and premeditation. Hence I prefer the innocence of other animals - and I quite like gorillas - they are very sweet, compared to humans.

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

I honestly think we've caused more problems than we've actually solved. That's just from noticing the state of everything going to hell on a freight train 🫠

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Agree 100%

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Davina's avatar

It's not only the manipulation and deceit, it's the thinking we are better than any other when we're just more violent. Some animals do fight over areas of land, but it's their hunting grounds and they have marked out their area. Humans have no respect for another's space they just get bigger weapons, more bombs and take, take, take even when a people have settled in that land for centuries, even thousands if years - they decide they want it? They take it.

The US uses proxies because lands they want are oil and gas lands, which are not next door. They also use their currency to entrap other countries. An other thing is: when has the US fought any country on its own? Kennedy may have faced down the Russians over Cuba, but that was nit gojng to war, though it could have been. We'll never know. But US always makes sure other countries have stupidly signed up to go into a war with them before the move an inch. Thus Venezuela nonsense is only happening because Drumpf's ego us so huge he'd think it weak to ask anyone to join him, plus he wouldn't want to share the oil and gas, he hopes to grow wealthier from, with anyone else. If he did promise a slice of the profits, forget it he renages on deals like other people blink.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Yes, manipulation and deceit. Also agree on the growing greed which causes many of the problems. It's outsized and disproportionate greed. Additionally, agree with the US actions of involving other parties in their fight for resources and domination.

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Realist's avatar

"The frontal lobe hemispheres have given us the capacity for advanced problem solving but also interpersonal manipulation and deceit, calculation and premeditation."

This is demonstrably true. Many human traits need much improvement, but humans are evolving—some faster than others.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

An interesting conversation I guess...what this evolution is.

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Hassan's avatar

“ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.”

Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

To put things into perspective.

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AB Doc's avatar

I think you're too harsh. They are still my favourite species

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Not mine.

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

They are amazing critters 🥰

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AB Doc's avatar

Critters - Mine ears discern an Americanism ?

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

Humans are critters too. Lol. Unfortunately, way too many human critters see "animal" as a derogatory term. So, critters 🤷‍♀️🦧

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Shane Fitzgerald's avatar

Wonderful piece of writing, thinking and analysis, Sobia. Well done. Up there with the best things I've read on Substack.

I'll touch on a few things.

'It is salient that the West has reinscribed West Asia as the “Middle East”, a Eurocentric terminology that not only situates everything relative to the West, but also lumps together regions East of Europe into one diffuse mass. The recent conceptual construction of a “global South” again places the rest of the world politically and economically as opposite in polarity to the superior and affluent global North, a somewhat crude categorization.'

Great point, Sobia. The British, English technically, love doing that with our area of the world. Calling Ireland and Britain together, the British Isles. They can fuck off with that. The centring and decentring of civilisation can be extremely insidious. Copernican heliocentrism fundamentally changed everything in society, for the better. Seeing yourself as the centre and making others see it like this should always be resisted.

'This slogan of victimhood and dispossession conceals the malignity of the underlying claim – it was never empty. It conceals the intent to thievery and the cunning colonial long game of one day emptying this land to seal the claim – by whatever means necessary. This is what we are seeing unfold today.'

Yes, it's presented as if Arab Palestinians were squatting on hallowed ground for all these years, and despite all the things that land has gone through and all the people who've come and gone, one group who occupied a bit of it for a bit of time and wrote some weird old books there have a claim to it more than anyone else. With this logic anyone could claim anything anywhere.

'Where we are frequently asked, Does “Israel” have a right to exist, we must instead ask ourselves whether a state whose existence depends on perpetual war with its neighbours, that can only “exist” through asserting a reality of apartheid on the indigenous people of the land, that maintains its rights through ongoing genocide and is perpetually on the attack, has any right to exist in the Middle East, let alone at all.'

Very true, Sobia. In the real world no state has any right to exist as such. If they can maintain themselves, then they exist; it they can't, they don't. And it's very hard to become a new state. But most states' existence isn't predicated on so much threat, danger, destruction and just general taking from others. These sorts of states are rogue states whose existence can no longer be tolerated. Israel's existence is founded on taking the existence of others away: in a normal, fair and balanced world, this sort of state would have to be dismantled.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Thank you so much for your valuable feedback and comments Shane, I really appreciate your perspective and I think we seem to agree on most areas! :)

Absolutely love this comment: "Great point, Sobia. The British, English technically, love doing that with our area of the world. Calling Ireland and Britain together, the British Isles. They can fuck off with that. The centring and decentring of civilisation can be extremely insidious. Copernican heliocentrism fundamentally changed everything in society, for the better. Seeing yourself as the centre and making others see it like this should always be resisted." - "they can fuck off with that" - straight out of my own heart, love it!

"Yes, it's presented as if Arab Palestinians were squatting on hallowed ground for all these years, and despite all the things that land has gone through and all the people who've come and gone, one group who occupied a bit of it for a bit of time and wrote some weird old books there have a claim to it more than anyone else. With this logic anyone could claim anything anywhere." - my god, so true! I was reading something yesterday that was supposed to be supportive of the Palestinians, describing how after the European Jews immigrated there, the Palestinians "stayed" - huh? What the actual fuck???

"But most states' existence isn't predicated on so much threat, danger, destruction and just general taking from others. " - That ominous sentence in itself conveyed such an accurate and chilling picture of what "Israel" is...

Thanks again Shane, your critical thinking but above the your empathy (and "defiance" - or shall we say an attitude of resistance - always shine through in your comments!)

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Shane Fitzgerald's avatar

Thank you very kindly for your kind words, Sobia, and great piece once again - one of your best))

Always a pleasure chatting and sharing ideas.

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

Thanks for your erudite and thoughtful article !!!👍👍👍

Be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth, and SUBDUE it ...

Sounds familiar ...

This is the infrastructure of ALL misery.

With sins turned into virtue, not having to face any accountability, what else should humanity expect ??? ...

Just waiting for the next Black-Swan event ...

Which hopefully turns their wet-dreams into ashes for good.

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Davina's avatar

I have no idea why, but your post has reminded of a movie many, many years ago, where the earth was so overpopulated they had to limit people agewise by killing them, though they had a different word for it, in order for another child to be born. The whole idea seemed preposterous to me. I remember thinking - why didn't they just cut the birthrate decades earlier?

I suppose the problem would be which countries would do it wholly and which would cheat? Right now, I think they'd just start killing off the less well armed countries until they reached a point that satisfied the billionaires, because, surely, they would not be expected to not have offspring, who would get all their wealth. Can you imagine Musk not bringing more children into the world to make his little Musktown?

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

I see your point, and the fact this is probably already in action as we speak. Meanwhile yes, the oligarchs will be creating their own little empires. In Musks case he is so unhinged with his supremacist wet dream scenarios of probably broods of little racist white supremacists running around embodying his future vision - sounds very much like a dystopian horror movie!

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

Thanks for your reply. Maybe you refer to the film called "Soylent Green" where people are rather rudely "collected" with front-loaders and turned into green goo to feed the ones whose turn still lies some similar meals ahead ...

Rather crude when seeing how people are decimated by clot-shots they voluntarily line-up for these days ... Just more sophisticated, but no less of a pervasive evil.

In my previous comment I capitalized the term SUBDUE only, not "to be fruitful and multiply. Since the days and ideas of Thomas Malthus, overpopulation serves as fearmongering and distraction from the REAL problem that is: distribution of resources and fast-pace centralization of wealth, control and power as of lately. Overpopulation is a myth as well as climate change (some call it seasons) 🤣🤣🤣

Business and profits reign supreme !!!

Of course the planet cannot bear 8 billions that all have the living- and consumer- standard of the USA or the West in general. Just as an example from Leo:

"India's per capita energy consumption was significantly lower at 27.3 gigajoules (GJ) per person, compared to 277.3 GJ in the US. This disparity is also reflected in electricity consumption, where the US consumed 4,145 terawatt-hours (TWh) in 2024, while India consumed 1,532 TWh"

And India has about a 4.4 larger population which makes the electricity consumption of the average Jane and Joe about 12 times the one consumed by Arya or Rohit in India ...

Greed and supremacy-attitude, thought to be legit based on the "SUBDUE" mentioned above is the root of the entire disaster, NOT too many people.

Have a nice time !!!

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Davina's avatar

No, that was not the one I meant, mine was a much more civilised though ridiculous process that could have been fixed much sooner with a bit of thought, but a lot of today's film leave me wondering why the obvious solutions are missing there are so many plot holes in them.

I mentioned a teen series a day or two ago, and the first thing that hit me was where the hell were the parents, the second was why were these teens seldom in class during the day - this wasn't summer vacation time - and why did none of the teachers notice how often they must have been missing. Why was there only two bedrooms in a house big enough to fit six, at least. And why did the parents never wonder why their offspring was arguing with another person, in their bedroom, when no one had come through the front door to visit them? I could go one but you get the idea, and this is supposedly a teen help film. It felt more like an crazy ad for the author of the book to get clicks on their ^helpline^ thank a serious look at teenage problems that they need real help getting through.

To me that is part of our problem thus decade at least, we are not seeing what is happening to some teenagers because, possibly, parents are too caught up in working to buy them things that "all my friends have". That mantra is as old as the hills, and a serious talk would solve things more than ^things^ would or do.

Sorry, Sobia, this is totally off topic, or is it? It all started somewhere.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

😂 It's ok Davina - for some reason my comments tend to become very random - I attribute this to the fascinating people who comment on my essays 😉

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Davina's avatar

Thank you, for your understanding.

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

The film you refer to is made to create confusion. Have a look who is its producer ...

Of course, many parents buy things for the kids in order to soothe their own bad consciousness. Deep down, they know they're not up to parenting, which is entirely by design ...

Have a good time !!!

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Thank you as always Klaus for your brilliant comments! Yes, the infrastructure of misery and colonizing greed. Hopefully the time will come very soon, for a different outcome, a paradigm shift.

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

🤞🤞🤞 !!!

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Aamir Razak's avatar

Brilliantly written Ms. Quazi. I liked the analogy of Prometheus' theft of the sun akin to nefarious colonists stealing the term civilization and appropriating it as theirs' alone, while diminishing or totally excluding the significant and transformative advancements and discoveries made by the East. This rhetoric is constantly employed to demonize the "other", whether they be Muslim, Palestinian, a person of color, an immigrant etc and turn it into an "us vs them" scenario to justify violence, surveillance and oppression.

The inversion of David and Goliath (With David, the underdog clearly embodied by the Palestinians) vs the colonial backed, genocidal oppressor Goliath, was also a really neat addition.

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

Thank you as always for your insightful comments Aamir - excellent summing up as well!

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Realist's avatar

"The past two years has seen a turning upside down of international laws, codes and regulations. Legal frameworks have been disregarded and discarded, and we have seen clearly how empty platitudes and pointless rhetoric at the highest level have been utilized as mere smokescreens for allowing the continuation of a genocide."

This is not new for the United States, tho it has definitely increased recently. But be advised, do not paint all whites or Westerners with the same brush. Most of the Israeli support in the United States comes from Judeo-Christians who are steeped in dogmatic biblical ideology. This group has placed Jews on a pedestal, allowing them inordinate power over media, academia, entertainment, and, worst of all, government policy in American society

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Sobia Quazi's avatar

It's not really about whites and Westerners individually, but about the systems of privilege constructed over years and adherence to which determines ones degree of colonial affiliation. So, most of my friends and social circle are probably white Westerners of one origin or other, but what I refer to are the institutionalised systems put into place by the West, that privilege whiteness over others - not physical whiteness of course, as a significant percentage of Palestinians are of white European appearance and mixed ancestry. What I mean is the West and Europe's colonial systems, their hierarchies, their othering both historically and over time. Some individuals support this and benefit from it happily at the expense of others, and they promulgate these effects societally, others can see them clearly and refuse them. the "Judaeo-Christian" terminology is relatively new, a uniting against Islam. Yes ashkeNazI jews and Zionists have become very dominant but the Wests colonialism and imperial ambition over centuries is undeniable.

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